FOUR ([info]girlboymusic) wrote,
@ 2007-05-16 16:10:00
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Current mood:greedy
Current music:Shakira - "Don't Bother"
Entry tags:i are srs cat this are srs thread, let's hope kara never googles herself, long rants about nothing, pop/culture, these things happen

it's not my last life at all
I guess that, at some point, you have to end up drunk and crying on the floor outside someone's bathroom, or else you're just not twenty-four. So maybe, in the long run, it won't be a big deal. But for the moment it's just...changed some things. I don't know what yet. I don't have anything to say. In the meantime, the Pixie and I went to Romeo & Juliet at Lincoln Center, and left at intermission because we are not grown-ups. We ran around the building for a little while, watching people out in the courtyard and feeling like someone was going to give us detention. Then we went to Great Adventure and got really excited about "It's Gonna Be Me" playing over the sound system. No, seriously. Twenty-four to fourteen, in three days flat.

So the rest of this post is going to be about ILX.

Dave wants teenage MySpacers to join the teenpop thread (but I am posting this here and not there because this is more about me and my relationship with a certain kind of discussion than anything else). Would the teenage MySpacers be able to keep up? Or want to? This is not a criticism of them; I am a college-educated adult who has read Benjamin, and I still don't know what the fuck you're all talking about when you start talking about Benjamin. (And, here's the key: I don't care to. I don't like Benjamin. This is not the same as my violently opposing Catharine MacKinnon; me and MacKinnon at least had a conversation. I read her and understood her, and then made the decision to disagree with her. I do not recall ever having an intelligent thought about Benjamin. My thoughts on Banjamin are limited to: "Shut up." Although we've established that I have the attention span of a ninth-grader, so.) I was a random Googler, of sorts--initially, I found the teenpop thread by Googling Kara DioGuardi (surprise)--so I do think that random Googlers are able to integrate into the teenpop thread and ILX as a whole. But the thing is, it took me like a year (and a blog) to integrate. When I first found the teenpop thread, I read approximately three posts before getting really tired and just ctrl-f-ing Kara's name the rest of the way through. I came back because I felt like I wasn't going to understand Cure for Bedbugs, either, otherwise--and then it was six months before I actually posted anything. The problem I had (have) with ILX is actually the same problem I had with Benjamin and...whoever else I was supposed to read with Benjamin: you can't read him unless you read what he reads. (Although he did it on purpose, I think, whereas people on ILX just happen to be over my head half the time, and talking about Skye Sweetnam the other half.) And my instinct is to engage the text, not the text behind the text, plus I'm not familiar with the text behind the text, so I end up counting myself out of the conversation before it even starts, really, because it is a conversation I am neither willing nor able to have. And like...teenage MySpacers haven't even read Benjamin yet! Sucks for them!

Did that make sense?

Speaking of things that require way too much effort, is anybody else bothered by the new Beyonce song being like thirty-seven minutes long? Cablevision ran an emergency broadcasting system test in the middle of it, and the song was still going. (Also, the test was better than the song: some robot chick narrating the weather report over rustly muzak with staticky dudes arguing in the background and a bunch of staccato beeps. I think it was produced by Timbaland.)



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[info]lalanav
2007-05-17 04:47 am UTC (link)
1 - Yeah, well.

2 - Uhh...............so that probably made sense to ILX people and I SHOULD have listened to the cut and tuned out, but the masochistic part of me made me click. Uh...

3 - Wtf, the test had a weather report and muzak?! Is that a common thing for you? Because I have NEVER seen a test of the emergency broadcasting system that involved anything other than "beeep. beeeep." and then the "This is a test. It is only a test. If there were an actual emergency..."

4 - I don't know what Beyonce song you're talking about, but I finally did hear "Umbrella." That song makes me suffer violent mood swings, moving wildly between "Yeah, it's alright," and "GOD, SHUT UP WITH THE ELLA-ELLA-ELLA." So...yeah.

5 - Blake v. Jordin - the Ultimate Showdown.

6 - Why are you not online at all during the day anymore?

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[info]girlboymusic
2007-05-17 05:12 am UTC (link)
1. Four.

2. Four.

3. Yeah! No! It used to be the "This is a test..." announcement plus the beeps/buzzes and a full-screen display of the network and test information. Then lately it's been a text running along the top of the regular broadcast, with the "This is a test..." info, and the regular broadcast muted so you can hear the beeps/buzzes. But then today, it was beeps/buzzes plus like, a female version of the Weather Channel local forecast audio (thus the muzak), and two indecipherable guys droning on in the background. It was so weird.

4. IT GOES ON FOREVER. And yeah, I had the same reaction to "Umbrella (ella...ella...ella)" first, but I just tried really really hard to ignore the ellas, and managed to embrace its awesomeness.

5. Blake v. Jordin - The WRONG Showdown..

6. See 1.

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[info]skyecaptain
2007-05-21 03:17 pm UTC (link)
Lessee...(1) I don't get Benjamin either. I think "Mechanical Reproduction" and "aura" etc. etc. MUST be bullshit because they irritate me so much but have never taken the time to break it down sentence by sentence and set it off in the bedbugs stylee. Usually I just ignore him. (Lately I've been reading nuthin but Eco, whose clarity is very refreshing. There are other theorists I think I have somewhat of a grasp on, and probably agree with/have much to learn from, like Foucault and Wittgenstein, and it's my own fault for not digging in a little deeper. But I guess my point here is that if you've tried to get inside and aren't getting the argument and, importantly, no one can effectively rephrase the argument in a way that makes any sense whatsoever, SHUT UP is a valid response! And you can ask just that on the teenpop thread, but more like "what do you mean when you say "aura blah blah blah"? I don't understand this at all," not that anyone brought up aura cuz I'da laid the smackdown. Since we're talking about music that MUST be mechanically reproduced (and can't have a Benjamin AURA thpth), it's a moot point and irrelevant to our conversation anyway).

(2) My limited experience with MySpacers and googlers is that a lot of them have a passion and perspective that other people on the thread -- precisely because they're so darn clever -- don't have. Like, I've gotten schooled numerous times by Aly and AJ fans who basically think I'm a paranoid jerk (and, funny thing, they're RIGHT!). So I'd like to see, f'rinstance, some of them post more than once in my comments, and in a post that isn't from 2005, so that I can respond to them and we can have a conversation. This could happen in small doses on, say, a comment thread, though the likelihood of it happening on Rolling Teenpop is slim because RT is so hard to parse even when you know what the heck it is. That's really just a format thing, though.

(3) engage the text, not the text behind the text...you always need to call people out on this (if you think it's mucking up the convo), because it's the "wink-nudge" of academia (Idolator and many an ILM thread being the "wink-nudge" of music criticism at the moment). Don't let people nudge you knowingly unless they can back that shit up 100%, because otherwise they're either covering their ass (this reminds me of Benjamin...what, you haven't read him? What, you don't know already? [/smirk]) or just generally being inarticulate. I bet almost all cases on Rolling Teenpop it's the latter, because most people are pretty nice! People should be presenting ideas in a way that you can grasp them; if you can't grasp the idea, it's almost certainly because it's not being clearly stated. Anyway, when I bring up theorists on my blog, I either quote something specific or try to give a gist of the argument...and usually the "theory" is actually tangential to the ideas I'm interested in (see: the Bo Diddley conversation in the comments section of a post from about a week ago where I brought up Eco and Joyce/Borges as Beatles/Stones. You don't need to read Eco, Joyce, or Borges to get the point, but the point itself isn't even that pertinent!)

Which brings me to (4), if things are getting sidetracked (the whole thing is arguably a huge sidetrack, except there's no "main track" to get sidetracked from), it's the nature of the thread and you have to just ctrl-F Kara and respark the convo!

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[info]girlboymusic
2007-08-04 12:55 am UTC (link)
(2) It took me like 3 months to think up a reply to this, but: see my response to Frank, below.

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[info]skyecaptain
2007-05-21 03:31 pm UTC (link)
And I gotta say, I'm generally an optimist and hope and hope that there are hundreds of "random googlers" more like you than like Mr. "U R RETARTED" ready to jump into this stuff and consistently kick some ass. Secretly, being paranoid and a little gloomy, I doubt it, so I'll take friends wherever I can find them and I'm very glad that your obsession led you to a conversation you think is worth having, just as ctrl-F-ing Skye eventually led me to people like Metal Mike and Frank K and Tim F and Tom Freaky Trigger and Abby Poptext and Jessica Poptastic. And maybe Skye herself, we'll see if that pans out.

Also should note that I waited over a year before posting to ILM at all, and even then very sporadically. Despite the fact I'd been doing Bedbugs for a year, I waited about four months to post to teenpop. I was incredibly daunted by the board in general, now I have more control over what daunts me, and when something does, I try to get as close to it as I can (as do you, clearly). I have intellectual limitations, but I'm going to exhaust every possible angle before I settle for "I guess I just don't get it yet, oh well." (This still happens a lot.) But one thing I've learned from people on ILM is never to assume it's your intellect that's limited, that it might just be how the conversation is currently playing out.

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[info]skyecaptain
2007-05-21 03:32 pm UTC (link)
Damn, I spent three hours this morning ctrl-F-ing Skye Sweetnam and now I'm exhausted.

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[info]koganbot
2007-08-03 07:43 pm UTC (link)
Nia, this post baffled me when I first read it, and it still does. What's so hard to understand about rolling teenpop? Like all discussion about music, this one's hard if you haven't heard the songs (or at least the music the songs are being compared to), given that music is difficult to describe and impossible to convey. But there's very little "theoretical" writing on rolling teenpop; Mordy and no one else has mentioned "rockism" and "Frankfurt School" and "ideology" and "authenticity" a few times, and no one took him up on that stuff, so mostly we're on about Clive and Kelly and Aly and A.J. and whether monkeys are real. I try to be comprehensible, and if someone like you isn't getting me, then I'm doing something wrong.

But I'll admit that the thread has grown tired - in fact, ilX itself has grown tired (and nasty and brutish, though not short) - and most of the fun smart people have migrated to [info]poptimists (where I'd like to see you) so there are days when I simply forget to look at the rolling teenpop thread.

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[info]girlboymusic
2007-08-04 12:44 am UTC (link)
At this point, I don't really know what I was talking about, either (attention span of a ninth-grader), but I'll give it a try:

I don't hate iLX discussing Benjamin, I hate iLX discussing like Benjamin, is the point I think I was trying to make. There are times when the thread appears to be more about music criticism than about music, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but can be difficult to parse if you don't read Pitchfork or Stereogum or whatever (or care to). And when Dave wished for random Googlers and teenage MySpacers, what he really wished for were fans (in fact, he specifically said he wanted Aly & AJ fans to drop by), but Rolling Teenpop is, by nature, at odds with fans. I mean, if they wanted to talk about the critical reception of teenpop, they would have Googled "critical reception of teenpop," not "Aly & AJ," you know?

Which is not to say that they might not come for the Aly & AJ and stay for the discussion of teenpop as a genre, but...look, I care about music criticism, and I probably would Google "critical reception of teenpop," but even I wander off when we stop talking about Kara, and there aren't many people willing to humor me when I bring her up again. So it's not that I'm not getting you, basically, it's that there's a limit to how much I want to. I'll give [info]poptimists a try, though.

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